In episode 29 of Creative Collaboration, Veronica and Jillian passionately advocate for recognizing the significant contributions of micro companies and SMEs in driving economic growth. They challenge the prevailing emphasis on celebrating unicorns and propose collaborative initiatives to support smaller impactful businesses, aiming to shift the conversation towards empowerment and recognition of overlooked companies.
Today Veronica Guguian and Jillian Vorce dig into the vital topic of micro companies and SMEs versus unicorns. Veronica passionately advocates for recognizing the pivotal role small businesses play in driving employment and revenue in the economy.
Together, they question society's emphasis on celebrating unicorns over smaller enterprises and explore the imbalance in resources and admiration. Veronica unveils a research project to spotlight overlooked companies and invites listeners to nominate them. They discuss exit strategies, the need for alternatives to giants like Amazon, and propose collaborative initiatives to support small businesses. Tune in to shift the conversation towards empowering smaller impactful companies.
People & Resources Mentioned in This Episode
About Veronica Guguian
- Website: https://spinideas.nl/
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/veronica-guguian
About Jillian Vorce
- Website: https://thejilliangroup.com/better
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jillianvorce
Credits
- Music Composed by BeeLa Music
- Voiceover by Amanda Balagur
Jillian Vorce: Hello. Welcome to episode 29 of creative collaboration conversations with Veronica and Jillian. Hey, Veronica. How's it going? And what are we talking about today?
Veronica Guguian: Well, everything is good, and I just realized we are almost approaching number 30. I love round numbers.
Jillian Vorce: Very happy. Yeah, imagine that. Imagine that. It took us less time to record episodes one to 30 than it did for us to go from. Yes, let's do our podcast. And to get the first episode recorded, it took so long. It's like how it goes. It takes so long sometimes to get something off the ground. But look at us now, almost 30 episodes in.
Veronica Guguian: And I know we said that we need to listen to the first episodes to see where we are now, actually. I'm so scared of doing that.
Jillian Vorce: Yeah.
Veronica Guguian: But I think it's quite a journey. And thank you for being part of this journey with me. So I'm enjoying it.
Jillian Vorce: Likewise, actually, by episode 30, hopefully, my audio will be better because I have some equipment finally coming. So it's taken me. Yeah, 30 episodes to get that part together. So, hey, listen, sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly, but we'll get there.
Veronica Guguian: I just have a microphone, and I know the sound is better, but I just realized while we're recording the last one I forgot to actually select it.
Jillian Vorce: Yeah, so even if you have it, there's no guarantee. Yes.
Veronica Guguian: But that being said, coming back to today's episode, actually, it's a topic that my team spins ideas and also a base we are working on sometimes. And what I want to do is to bring awareness towards micro companies and small and medium companies. Because if you actually look, it's quite cultural and everyone is following the unicorns. Everyone wants to be a unicorn. And, of course, you want to be a unicorn because it sounds cool; let's be honest, it's a mythical character that no one has ever seen and sounds so amazing. And you want to be that. And everyone wants the big money and get out of, how do you call it? Like a hamster on the wheel and just enjoy, right? You have a brilliant idea that will change the way the world is working and, business is conducted, and the economy is done and just be.
Veronica Guguian: Those are exceptions, actually. They don't really exist. And if you look at the companies that we consider unicorns, actually, they put a lot of effort into it. They are just a handful, and they become corporates. That's the reality. They are not startups; they are not amazing social impact companies. They are just another corporate bottom line. That's the harsh reality. However, I know you want to.
Jillian Vorce: I'm biting my tongue right now. Go ahead; I can wait.
Veronica Guguian: Don't forget the idea. Don't forget the idea. And here is what I want to introduce and what I want to challenge. And I want to have a discussion about it and to invite everyone to help me have this discussion during our podcast and also in the next space conference. And much more than that, we have statistics, actually European statistics, and also statistics run by the Netherlands that show the small, the micro companies, the one that, like one man, showed up to ten. And the small companies are the heart of the economy. They are the ones that actually bring over 70%, 70% of the employment, 70% again, and more than 50% of the revenue, actually, more than that. I need to check. We're going to link some statistics.
Veronica Guguian: So why do we humans, not only in the US or Netherlands everywhere, put effort and just celebrate the unicorns that actually in 2021 there were like eleven unicorns, this year, even less in the Netherlands alone, but the majority. I'm talking about the Netherlands here because I'm not talking internationally, just the Netherlands.
Jillian Vorce: Okay.
Veronica Guguian: And all the money is going towards those companies. It's very unbalanced. And why do all the resources, promotion, and admiration go towards these companies instead of focusing on the small ones, the brick and mortar, I think that's the expression, the structure of our economy. They are the ones promoting the European values, promoting the local values, and helping you day to grow. So that's the topic I want to launch and to discuss a little bit; even if I don't, we don't have the answer to that, just to be honest. But I do want to bring awareness and to give space. And actually, we are running research. We want to celebrate, we want to help this, we want to work more with these types of companies. And the reality is they do have a social impact.
Veronica Guguian: They are the ones hiring people, they are the ones helping and providing the services that you need. But everyone is kind of ignoring them because we take them for granted. Maybe that's the problem. We are so used to having them that we don't really look at them. So how about we are changing the conversation and that's my invitation. Let's have a chat with (I finished my coffee, but I have my water) about this. And to the listeners, help us map out the ecosystem, the micro and small ecosystem in the Netherlands, and actually not only here, but European or even internationally.
Jillian Vorce: Interesting.
Veronica Guguian: I'm curious to know what you wanted to say when you were like biting your.
Jillian Vorce: Yeah, gosh. So, a bunch of things. So, the first thought that comes to mind for me just having our candid, casual coffee conversation here. Right. For starters, all unicorns began as an idea and then began with the founder and a few people. And so, in effect, all unicorns were smaller micros at one point. And I think that's part of what's really unbelievable is for companies that were able to kind of create this perfect alignment of this idea and the execution with the right team. And honestly, I think a little bit of luck along the way, or maybe a degree from Stanford, either or can really go quite a ways. So I think that's what's interesting about celebrating a unicorn is to get to that billion dollar valuation mark. I think that, in and of itself, is a great storyline.
Jillian Vorce: I think what it represents and a whole bunch of other stuff tied to it is not as great any longer. I think it's very heavily tied to the kind of conventional capitalist shareholder valuation mentality, which I at least personally see as no longer sustainable. So I'm much more an advocate of the stakeholder approach, which doesn't necessarily align per se with the conventional kind of unicorn status, which is very kind of linear focused. Anyhow, that's just a few thoughts about that. The second thing that I really wanted to jump in and kind of interrupt you on is the part about impact. So it's interesting because I was in a kind of preparation for this chat. I did look at some articles and did some reading and looked at some statistics, et cetera. In particular, I was looking for that exact thing.
Jillian Vorce: What percentage of unicorns are impact-driven, and or are any of them B Corp certified? So, I came across a few that are pretty interesting. One is Culture AMP, which is a certified B Corp, and it's a really great article and how I can share in the show notes about how they view growing their company and being kind of the financial performance of their company while also kind of prioritizing the way they treat their team and their employees, their customers, et cetera. So therefore, achieving B Corp certification in about nine months. So that's a great example. Another widely popular unicorn is Canva. So, of course, we both have a kind of marketing background, so I thought I'd throw Canva in there. Most people know that.
Jillian Vorce: But specifically also on the impact side, I'm not sure if you know, Echo Vadas, I think, a company founded or based in France, I think, but they are also a unicorn that has a sustainability rating platform, but they're also all about kind of this shareholder, I mean, the stakeholder mentality and about incorporating sustainability and equity, et cetera, throughout their whole business model. So they're a really great example of what can happen anyhow. And then you were talking about the, go ahead.
Veronica Guguian: If I can jump in. I want to challenge a little bit what you said because I'm not sure if these are more zebra companies than unicorns because the unicorns if you look at the values, it's actually a value thing the unicorns want to gain. And I do have a graph somewhere that differentiates this, too, because these unicorns actually have what they want. They want to get the billion, like huge investments, to grow very quickly and then to have an exit strategy, whereas the companies that you just described, they are more looking for the long-term commitment to have a social impact, to work with the stakeholders, to have a holacratic different type of structure.
Veronica Guguian: And these are actually, that doesn't mean they don't want the money or long term or investments like big investments, but it's about the approach to the business and how they present themselves. And this is why they become big carbs. And that makes them, it's a movement that actually was launched in the states, zebras. And from what you're telling me, they are closer to that than to the unicorns. And if you look at the definition, so again, I'm working more with small companies. So this one, I'm focusing on that. But also, in the big universe of companies, you do have unicorns that are big, and they become corporates, but that doesn't mean you don't have good examples like the one that you just mentioned. But I do want to challenge, are they actually unicorns or zebra companies?
Veronica Guguian: And I think the bottom line is how they approach business and their values and what's the intention behind.
Jillian Vorce: Yeah, it's interesting because I was just speaking with a business owner recently about this topic about the idea of exits and exit strategies and whether or not that's inherently bad or not, and how there is the idea of the serial entrepreneur who. That's what they do. They build and sell companies. I have a number of those folks that I talk with regularly, and that's what they do. And it doesn't mean that their businesses can't provide an impact or have a lot of value to their ecosystem. But I think there are good examples and bad examples of everything. But I think that just because somebody's building a company and building it to sell it, I don't think it necessarily means that it's, like, evil.
Veronica Guguian: But that doesn't make that company a unicorn either.
Jillian Vorce: Well, yeah, that depends on their valuation. But even if they build it and achieve that and then sell, it doesn't mean that it's not impactful. Some people are just geared to be creators in that way and to build companies and to sell them and then to build a new idea and to sell that. Some people are geared towards that. But in any case, I digress.
Veronica Guguian: The discussion is not that it's bad or not bad to have unicorns or to have small companies or medium. It's about why all the resources go towards the unicorns instead of focusing on the smaller businesses as well when the highest impact on the economy is done by these small companies. So, we are not debating that unicorns are better in my perspective or not. It's actually how the resources are distributed.
Jillian Vorce: So I don't know about that. I have not seen that. So to me, I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around that because I don't know if you can kind of enlighten me a little bit more about what you mean by that or something so I can understand it a little better.
Veronica Guguian: Actually, everyone is trying, and culturally, everyone is focusing on the unicorns and these types of companies and to go and get money and raise money for them and to focus on them, and everyone is picking and celebrating these types of companies, unicorns, whereas there are a lot of smaller ones, like the big corpse, that they don't necessarily get the big amounts of money, that maybe they don't even need them, but no one is actually talking about them. No one is focusing on them. Everyone wants to work with the unicorns instead of focusing on working with small businesses.
Jillian Vorce: Yeah, I think part of that makes it easier because there are so fewer unicorns it creates more of, like, a scarcity thing. There's only a few of them, so it's a greater kind of achievement to get there. But otherwise, like you said, it's like 95% of businesses are small businesses. So, how do we shine the spotlight on 95% of businesses? It's a little overwhelming. It's so much, and I could argue anyway, so that's the part I think it lends itself to this dynamic where there's fewer to talk about. So that's why they get more media attention. So I think it's tough when there's such an abundance of other businesses. So, how to go about shining a light on those other really solid companies that are not unicorns, don't want to be unicorns, and never will be unicorns?
Jillian Vorce: So, to be able to highlight and celebrate those is like the concept I love. I'm just not clear, and maybe it's not really about how we go about doing that, but I just think that's the majority of businesses agreed.
Veronica Guguian: And this is why, actually, we launched the research a couple of years ago, and now we want to bring it back and to invite the listeners to actually celebrate, to nominate, to actually name these companies that they love and to provide. Because I was attending a discussion about the digital footprint, and actually the, that we have at this point, and it's Carrie and everyone on the big ones, big companies like Amazon, the former Unicorns and AWs, that's not technologies, not green clouding; actually, it has a very bad impact on our climate, and no one is talking about that. Whereas we have green solutions by these small companies that everyone is ignoring them, or when you discuss with them, they are saying, oh, but I don't really know. It's harder to get to them.
Veronica Guguian: But actually, it's harder because you just need to do a little bit more research. So instead of going to the. That has a bad impact. How about we help them go to the smaller ones, and we actually classify the small companies, we actually do our research, and we invite the entire community to help us identify them. Okay, I think I lost you for a second, but you're back. We are back online. It's fine. My screen.
Jillian Vorce: I think a UFO must have flown over me because direct Canada must have been one of the rainbow cars, heard.
Veronica Guguian: The discussion and was trying to. So that's actually how to do it. I don't have the perfect answer. This is why I'm inviting the community to help me out. And in my mind, the first step will be to actually identify these small companies and maybe to put them in different sectors and to see how this can help us in different topics that we have, like the digital impact, or maybe we have one, mobility, health. So there are some beautiful examples, and a lot of people are willing to switch from these big ones and to.
Jillian Vorce: Actually help ones and make a database accessible. So people have an alternative place to go for their purchases, making their purchases or something.
Veronica Guguian: Exactly. And we do celebrate them, but also we start doing business with them. So instead, giving my money to the big unicorns that, anyway, have more than enough. And some of them, I start not being in line with their values anymore. How about I put my money into someone that I believe in? As simple as that.
Jillian Vorce: Yeah, I think that's great. Now it makes more sense to me, this idea, for sure. Yeah, I think of it differently. I don't think of it necessarily as having much to do with the unicorn. I think it's more about the conventional conglomerates that have sucked up so much market share and looking for alternatives. Right. So just like you said, rather than. Yeah, alternatives to Amazon, just like starting there. An alternative to Amazon, period.
Veronica Guguian: That's perfect. An easy way to say it, but that applies to everything. And Amazon was a unicorn. If you look at the big companies at this point, because you can't call them unicorns like they are corporations. The majority of them started being unicorns. And that's the mentality; actually, everything goes back to mentality. And I think we had several episodes talking about mentality and approach. So, the purpose of today's discussion for me was to bring awareness to this and to invite our community to help us identify these small businesses and to provide alternatives, and to celebrate them. So, do you have a small business that you are passionate about, or do you go and prefer to do business with them? Let's help them. Let's actually nominate them, and we'll be a form in the notes. Okay, let's change the status quo. Let's be the answer.
Jillian Vorce: Great. So, we'll include the link in the show notes so folks can go ahead and nominate either their own business or other businesses that they are aware of. So we can kind of create one master list and then organize it so people have a resource to utilize. So I think that makes a lot of sense. I think there's a lot of value in that. Cool. All right, any final thoughts on this topic, or can we talk about the listener collaboration sessions?
Veronica Guguian: Let's move to the listener collaboration.
Jillian Vorce: All right, so back, since the nature of our podcast is about collaboration, right? Veronica and I, being technically competitors, we decided to venture into the unknown and do some live collaboration sessions with each other. So episode eleven, we looked at Veronica and a part of her business. And then episode 13, we looked at my business. So, what we decided to do is to extend this kind of opportunity to folks who are listening to our Shanazi podcast. So, if you're interested in having a live collaboration session with us, check out the link in the show notes. There's a quick application form and we'll be starting to schedule those in the next couple of months. So have a look for that link in the show notes.
Jillian Vorce: And yeah, we're excited for the opportunity to get to chat with some listeners and to do some more of these live collaboration sessions.
Veronica Guguian: And if you are one of the small micro or SMEs, even better. Join us. Or if you are a unicorn, even better. Let's have a conversation.
Jillian Vorce: All right, so that's a wrap on 29.
Veronica Guguian: Thank you, everyone, for listening.
Jillian Vorce: All right, cheers.